Music Television 2.5

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Post  misery guts Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:17 am

Ray Charles - Live at Montreux 1997
The legend came to the Stravinski Auditorium to do his thing, with help from the Raelettes near the end. Entertaining work.

Shvpes: On Record
Griffin and Grant plugged their new album Greater Than, and about touring with acts like Trivium, making a video in Oxford, challenging themselves with songs, respecting Twenty One Pilots for doing their own thing, plans to tour Europe with Bullet For My Valentine, and then headline a tour themselves.

Beats, Bass & Bars: The Story of Grime
A new retelling of an old story, with Rodney P anchoring the chat to those who helped develop the sound and the scene over the last 20 years, over a pop slump around a decade ago, and its second wave with Stormzy and others.


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Post  misery guts Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:28 pm

Legends of Opera: Mario Lanza
Born the same year Enrico Caruso died, he shone on the big screen after MGM signed him up to a 7 year contract. At first, he proved the success they expected, but he suffered jealous criticism from opera fans who felt he was wasting his talent by using it as he did. His work suffered and MGM fired him, and then sued him. He had to avoid the movies for 3 years, and then his comeback flopped. He found success in Europe, to the point where MGM took him back. But his health issues continued and he was dead at 38, following which, his widow committed suicide. Despite this, his legacy was in inspiring tenors ever since, not least the Three Tenors.

Diana Ross - For One and For All
Her infamous 1983 gig in Central Park, which got canned partway through because of thunder storms, and instead rearranged for the following day, when the sun shone. Her material was wide and varied (including a cover of Beat It), but some of her between song banter betrayed her ego and diva attitude.
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Post  misery guts Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:23 am

Messe Noire - Live Satanist
A concert from Behemoth, at Warsaw in 2016. Although Polish black/death isn't really my scene, they did at least put captions up to at least help viewers along, and it was no different then from watching a classical recital. Hard not to at least smile at the closing caption "I Loved You At Your Darkest In Stores Now!Laughing 

Ariana Grande at the BBC
Her album came out months back, but here was a pre-Christmas hour-long plug. No mention of her love life, but a poignant look at the Manchester attack & subsequent concert. She suffers occasional anxiety attacks and enjoyed collaborating with Pharrell Williams. She has 7 dogs, and is fond of her mother and granny. She's a big fan of Imogen Heap and was flattered to include Madonna on a track. She loves singing with an orchestra, and enjoys the challenge of making her tours better than the records.
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Post  misery guts Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:07 pm

Legends of Opera: Andrea Bocelli
He just turned 60 in September, he had glaucoma as a child, and a sports accident left him blind. Happily, it didn't affect his memory or his singing, and after going to university in Pisa, then law school and marriage, he did a demo for Zucchero. It impressed Luciano Pavarotti, and things went from there. He had a crossover pop hit with Time to Say Goodbye, and has worked duets with Celine Dion and others. He's a bit success with the American audience, and most of everywhere else. The opera critics were less impressed, but what's new? He sang at Pavarotti's wedding and his funeral, has a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, his own charitable foundation, and his new album is #1 in the UK.

Music Icons: Creedence Clearwater Revival
After a couple of other names, the Fogerty brothers and friends composed their memorable moniker. John Fogerty took over the singing and the writing, and they released 5 albums through 1969-70, including a string of hit singles like Proud Mary, Bad Moon Rising and Have You Ever Seen The Rain?. Though they headlined Woodstock, John was not impressed. When his brother Tom quit, he didn't really adjust, and his poor business management meant he lost his publishing to Saul Zaentz. CCR split in '72, and they entered the R&R HoF in '93.
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Post  misery guts Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:54 am

Lady You Shot Me - Life and Death of Sam Cooke
Lengthy look at the short but busy career of the black soul star who fell foul of Allen Klein's bad management, and died in mysterious circumstances shortly after making clear he wanted to cut ties with Klein. He spotted Bobby Womack and Billy Preston and gave them some help, and he sang Civil Rights anthem A Change Is Gonna Come. But he was dead at 33.

Our Musical History - Indie & Beyond, with Shaun Ryder and Alan McGee
An amusing pairing with plenty of expected choices, but also surprises like Generation X and Junior Murvin. McGee helped The Hives on their way to their 15 minutes of fame, he found Underworld a much better live force than he expected (though Ryder points out that even the Happy Mondays sound better now than they did in their heyday because they're clean). Ryder spoke up for Salford deserving more of the credit that it usually siphoned off to Manchester.
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Post  misery guts Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:58 am

Disturbed: On Record
Sophie spoke to Dan & David from the band about their new Evolution album, and their journey from the early 2000s, and how their feelings have changed. Their creative process seems to divide into acoustic bits and plugged-in bits. Fans crave their original sound, though they can't willingly return there because they've changed. They have had discussions about mental health since their beginnings. They've got gigs planned for January, and will support Metallica at Austin City Limits.

War Horse at the Proms
This repeat from 2014 was shown to mark as part of the Remembrance weekend. Michael Morpurgo's book became a play, a film and now a musical piece too. The animatronic/puppetry with the horse itself is quite brilliant, but they also have smaller successes with a goose too. A fitting tribute.

Music Icons: Earth, Wind & Fire
Maurice White knew Booker T Jones when he was growing up. He moved from Chicago to LA to form E, W & F, named after astrology. Clive Davis approved of their funk work, and things took off. Shining Star gave them a #1 single. They brought in the Phoenix Horns, and White signed Deniece Williams and the Emotions to his label. They used magician Doug Henning for stage shows. They evolved into disco. There was a hiatus in the 1980s, and White developed Parkinson's in 1987, though he didn't leave until 1994. They entered the R&R HoF in 2000, and played the White House for President Obama.
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Post  misery guts Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:17 am

Legends of Opera: Renee Fleming
She was born in Pennsylvania in 1959, and has been popular with her home crowd at the Met. She was a Julliard student and made her break in 1988. She's made Mozart numbers central to her repertoire. She has 2 daughters and was signed to Decca Records. She didn't go down well at La Scala, but delighted at Covent Garden and the Proms, and even the Superbowl.

Our Musical History - Soul & Beyond, with Trevor Nelson and Corinne Bailey Rae
As predictable as expected, though there was the odd gem (Trevor raved over Prince's Money Don't Matter 2Night, as do I) amidst the namechecks for Bob Marley, Erykah Badu and Amy Winehouse. No Beyoncé or Alicia Keys, though.


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Post  misery guts Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:40 am

BBC Radio 2 In Concert - Boy George & Culture Club
They're back with a new album, Life, and did a few tracks from it, as well as classics from across their career, and even slipped in a tribute to George Michael as they blend Church of the Poison Mind with Wham!'s I'm Your Man. George mentioned they've done a song with Gladys Knight, and he also told an anecdote about DJ David Hamilton. A good show.

Legends of Opera: Enrico Caruso
Born in 1873, his big success came with making some of the first recordings of opera for gramophone in 1902. Success at La Scala, Covent Garden and the Met did have a knock-on effect in anxiety and pressure, managed to be in San Francisco during the 1906 earthquake, he had 4 children with his first wife Ada, but they split up. He made a radio debut in 1910, and worked with Toscanini, and did charity work during WW1. He suffered a throat haemorrhage and was dead in 1921.

Architects: On Record
The last edition, as Scuzz TV have gone off air after 15 years. Sophie spoke to Sam Carter of this band, whose new album comes after losing Tom. They focus on raising targets, with Wembley next. They've been going 13 years. Their US fame is improving. They're vegan and are concerned with the power of social media, especially viz discussions of mental health. They've a tour coming too.
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Post  misery guts Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:49 am

The Secret Science of Pop
Dr Armand Leroi tries to use machine learning to analyse thousands of charts hits from over the years to see what he can learn. What he doesn't learn is what a fundamentally thick thing this is to do, but he makes arguments that the musical changes in the 1960s were more to do with aggression of London bands, whilst the Beatles wrote twee ditties for kids (!) Also the punk upheaval of the 1970s made barely a scratch (which is what sticking to the charts for analysis tells you). He decides the more average a song (by his criteria) the more successful, and with Trevor Horn, tries to help an unsigned act towards greatness. It all backfires somewhat. Trevor's own instincts run to 5 factors; Good material, good voice, having charm or charisma, having strength of mind and body, and wanting it. Which is nearer the mark.

The South Bank Show: Beverley Knight
Wolverhampton's wonder gets her fillip, with Annie Lennox and Trevor Nelson singing her praise, and songwriter Guy Chambers also keen. She was a massive fan of Prince and once got to sing with him. Her parents were of the Windrush generation. She's had seven albums.

Music Icons: The Grateful Dead
They made sure to control their own publishing, and made good use of merchandising logos, so they became rich and were able to support charitable projects, and endorse bootlegs for no profit. They made it to the R&R HoF in the mid-90s. They even scored a chart hit in the late 80s.

Primal Scream: The Lost Memphis Tapes
In 1993, trying to follow their Screamadelica album, Alan McGee sent the lads to Memphis, where they worked with producer Tom Dowd and Muscle Shoals session men and even the Memphis Horns. But McGee wasn't keen and got George Drakoulias and George Clinton to remix some of the tracks to guarantee they had a hit. Many years later, Andrew Innes found a tape of the Dowd mixes amongst his collection, and lo, it's out in the shops soon.
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Post  misery guts Sat Nov 24, 2018 11:08 am

Sigrid - Live Sessions
A short but fun show in which Sigrid bantered about being from Norway and so on, and performed three songs including current hit Sucker Punch.

Kiss Rocks Vegas
From November 2014, the classic line-up belt out the hits to an appreciative crowd. One thing you seem to be able to rely on with Kiss is that your chorus will include the title to stirring effect.

The Prince and the Composer
Prince Charles talks about Sir Hubert Parry and how English he finds his music to be, and under-rated, despite being responsible for tunes like Jerusalem and Dear Lord and Father of Mankind. The Prince makes a more engaging presenter than many.

Our Musical History - Vocal Giants and Beyond
James Morrison and Beverley Knight paid homage, sometimes revealing their ignorance as much as their knowledge. That James might seriously not have known Hound Dog was a cover makes me question what he is sure about. They did include Elvis and snottily remarked on his voice cracking on a difficult note. I can't abide an elitist attitude like that.
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Post  misery guts Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:29 am

David Rodigan - Reggae Fever
How a bloke from the Oxford area became a world authority on the sounds of Jamaica and elsewhere. He had his own record stall, and later started on radio in the late 1970s (hence this loose 40th anniversary tribute). He met Bob Marley in 1974 after a gig. He learnt his craft and has earned respect from fans on both sides of the Atlantic. And of course in his spare time as a jobbing actor, he once got a go in Dr Who (sadly not discussed here).

Belladrum 2018: You Me at Six
A short set from the rising rockers who gave the crowd what they wanted.

Holst and Vaughan Williams - Making Music English
How two friends met at college in the 1890s and decided to challenge the German dominance in classical music. They did this in part by touring the countryside and absorbing folk music. For example, they took an existing work called The Ploughboy's Dream, and put new words to it as O Little Town of Bethlehem. Holst scored big with the Planets Suite, whilst RVW had success with his 3rd Symphony (the Pastoral). Holst was always in poor health and he died at 59. RVW lived another 20+ years, but their work was done.
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Post  misery guts Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:28 am

David Cassidy: The Last Session
In 2017, David decided to record an album in tribute to his father, Jack. His battles with dementia turned out (he said) to be more down to alcohol poisoning. But his constant pain worked against him, and he finally died a year ago. But his final EP did get finished.
There were 2 stories here: Publicist Elliot Mintz conducted recorded interview sessions with him around 1976, and some of this audio was used here.
The other facet was his troubled relationship with his father. David had been the child from Jack's first marriage, but Jack remarried. When David became as big a star as his father, he hoped for a proper connection, but it never came as his father died in 1976 in a house fire. Also, Jack clearly saw him as an embarrassment, not something to be proud of. The Partridge story had overtones of the Monkees, and with similar troubled results.

Radio 2 In Concert: Emeli Sande
With her parents down from Aberdeen in attendance, Emeli did stuff from her 2 albums, with some previews for her next album due out next year. I'm surprised she isn't a bigger star already. Maybe that 3rd album will do it.
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Post  misery guts Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:53 am

Our Classical Century: A New Dawn
Suzy Klein looks at the period between WW1 and WW2, and such classical music gems as Holst's Planet Suite and Vaughn Williams' Lark Ascending. They included Hubert Parry's Jerusalem too, to really ram home points I've seen in recent docs. Coleridge-Taylor's Hiawatha and Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue were also looked at, as well as the building of Abbey Road, and developments like microphones and radio. Lenny Henry helped tell some of the stories.

Music Icons: James Taylor
He had mental health issues early on, and later struggles with drug addictions. He had a short-lived run on Apple Records, but made bigger in-roads as a singer-songwriter. He worked with Carole King and married Carly Simon. He lived in the same apartment block in New York as John Lennon, and met Mark Chapman the day before the fatal shooting. 

The Proclaimers - This Is The Story
David Tennant interviews the Scottish duo about their career. They befriended Kevin Rowland (of Dexys Midnight Runners) and sent a demo tape to Paul Heaton (then of the Housemartins). They had a record remixed by Gerry Rafferty, and a publishing deal with Bill Drummond (the KLF). So they made good contacts. But they had good songs and a good recording ethic too. Apart from a hiatus to raise kids, they've kept touring and recording ever since.
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Post  misery guts Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:31 am

Legends of Opera: Jessye Norman
Born in Georgia, she started singing in church, and led on to opera. She won a scholarship, and became a success singing in Berlin. Then she went on to La Scala, Covent Garden and then New York. Her repertoire tended to be Franco-German rather than Italian. She sang for US Presidents like Reagan and Clinton. She renewed ties with Berlin when the wall fell in 1990. She sang at the 1996 Olympics in Georgia. She scaled back her career and set up her own art school.

Belladrum 2018 - The 101
A short performance of Cliché, which was good enough.

Music Icons: Jefferson Airplane
They developed a reputation for psychedelia and the counter-culture. They got namechecked by Donovan in the mid-60s. A few line-up changes led to their best-known members like Grace Slick. White Rabbit and Someone To Love are their best-known songs. They played Monterey Pop, Woodstock and Altamont. Factional problems led to the group dissolving. They opposed the Vietnam War. They made it to the R&R Hof In 1996.

Rebecca Ferguson - In Concert at Baloise Session 2015
She was pushing an album of classic covers, Lady Sings The Blues, which comprised the majority of this gig, though she saved her own hits for the final section.

Belladrum 2018 - Amy McDonald
The Scottish songstress gave a short turn of Down By Water.
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Post  misery guts Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:05 am

Stevie Wonder - A Musical History
The same series as for genres, but with all the guests (and others) talking about one specific artist. Extra voices brought in here included Glenn Gregory, Alexander O'Neal, Martin Freeman and Norman Jay.

MTV World Stage: Nick Jonas
A short burst from some festival at Singapore this August.

Music Icons: Joni Mitchell
Born an only child in Alberta, she was athletic and then quite sickly. She developed songwriting and met David Crosby in California. She peaked around the end of the 1960s with hits like Both Sides Now and Woodstock. She had an affair with James Taylor, then moved from folk to a more jazzy sound. She won Grammys too.

Paul Heaton - From Hull to Heatongrad
Just released a career compilation The Last King of Pop, he spoke about his formative school days and moving around the country. He formed a band Tools Down, and then put the Housemartins together once he connected with Stan Cullimore. Norman Cook, who went on to greater things from there, was a very chatty inclusion. The Beautiful South years were more important for bringing Paul to find Jacqui Abbott, whom he is again working with these days. He owned up to some failings, and made his lack of industry awards seem like a vendetta.
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Post  misery guts Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:21 am

MTV World Stage: Alessia Cara
She still seems more likely to be featured on other people's records, but her own are usually good, and she looks good for the long haul.

Sir Cliff Richard: 60 Years in Public and in Private
Veteran entertainer has his 1st album of new material in 14 years to celebrate the end of 4 tough personal years over police allegations badly reported by the BBC. He lives happily in Portugal. Some of the new songs, like album title track Rise Up, were quite good.

Songs of Praise: Cornish Christmas
Presenter Aled Jones heard from Fishermen's Friends, poet Lemn Sissay, and Cliff Richard, who sang his new Christmas song Miracle of Love.


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Post  misery guts Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:57 am

Julian Lennon - Through The Picture Window
This 2013 effort possibly tallied with an album release. He talks mainly in voiceover about his creative process and experience, and hobby of photography. Bono and Steven Tyler also contribute (the latter with mixed flattery). I was amused that Gregory Darling was one of his writing collaborators, as I've heard some of his songs that I liked.

Barbra Streisand - Becoming an Icon 1942-1984
How she fought her way to a singing and acting career, despite critical accusations of talentlessness. Her self-control made her ground-breaking in the 1960s, opening doors for others to follow. She's won awards left, right and centre. She got a star on the Hollywood walk of fame. She used her star power to make the personal project of Yentl. Truly, there's no sand like Streisand.

Music Videos That Defined the 2000s
Notably far more from the first half of the decade than the latter. Some were actually innovative and memorable, a few weren't. The influence of YouTube and "going viral" made an impact.
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Post  misery guts Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:18 am

Ten Greatest Hip-Hop Videos of All Time
BET did a secret industry poll and got some people I've never heard of to discuss it. Here's the list anyway:
10 This Is America - Childish Gambino
09 Stan - Eminem
08 Stand Up - Ludacris
07 Crossroads - Bone, Thugs N Harmony
06 The Rain (Supa Dupa Fly) - Missy Elliott
05 Humble - Kendrick Lamar
04 Been Around The World - Puff Daddy & the Family
03 Touch The Sky - KanYe West
02 California Love - 2pac
01 Put Your Hands Where My Eyes Could See - Busta Rhymes
Well, I wouldn't call that predictable...  Neutral 

The Truth About Carols
What turned out to be a 2008 doc with the ever reliable Howard Goodall relating the struggle to get carols sung at Christmas (St Francis of Assisi got the ball rolling, bizarrely), and how some of them (eg God Rest Ye, Merry Gentlemen) contained secret political messages. The publication of hymn books and the devising of a set service for Christmas Eve were big helps too.

Belladrum 2018 - Whisky Shivers
Never heard of them, but their song Reckless was OK.

Music Legends We Lost in 2018
Predictable fawning in some cases, brief blinks in many others. Hugh Masekela was probably more significant than Aretha Franklin, but good luck making that argument...
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Post  misery guts Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:48 am

Aled Jones - Dychwelyd Adre'
This 2016 saw Aled return to his hometown of Bangor to close his One Voice tour, an album project in which the adult Aled duetted, after a fashion, with his childhood self, on unreleased tracks made towards the end of his career before his voice broke. As ever, he's one of the few child stars to have matured into a likeable adult (achieved by dropping out of the spotlight for 15-20 years).

Top of the Pops Christmas
Usual Christmas Day lookback over the year's music, in tune with whoever they could get to come in and play. Happily acts like Jess Glynne, Rita Ora and George Ezra are not too uppity to do that. They also ran down the top 10 of the year, and played the video of the awful Christmas #1.

Q85: A Musical Celebration for Quincy Jones
Oprah Winfrey MC'd this back-slapping, as acts ranging from Stevie Wonder and Patti Austin, all the way down to John Legend and Meghan Trainor, took turns to sing songs associated with the legendary producer. Quincy himself was at least present. A classier closing section saw Gloria Estefan duet with her daughter Emily, and then Gladys Knight brought the curtain down.
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Post  misery guts Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:26 am

Suede - The Insatiable Ones
Lengthy and entertaining look back at how lads from Surrey became the first flame of Britpop by mistake. Brett Anderson is more of a latterday Bryan Ferry than the latterday Morrissey he is sometimes painted as. He did two albums before guitarist Bernard Butler left. Richard Oakes became a prodigious replacement, but then Brett got into drugs, and the band split after their 5th album. They reformed 7 years later for a one-off charity gig, and before you know it, they've added another 3 albums (the latest coming earlier in 2018). They seem a lot stronger unit now.

Larry King Now - Itzhak Perlman
Talented violinist talked of starting out in Israel, being intrigued by hearing classical music on the radio. He had polio as a young child, so he sits when conducting. He respects the talent of the young, listens to 50s rock n roll, and likes Brahms, Bach and Mozart. He felt parents should encourage their kids towards classical music at an earlier age than when teenagers. He's touring into 2019, and subject of some PBS doc series American Masters.
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Post  misery guts Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:24 am

Big Sean - Live @ Wireless Festival 2018
A bit sweary, but he did at least rattle through the material, even squeezing in his 2017 #1 Feels (although most people would think he was the least memorable part of that track).

Belladrum 2018 - Tide Lines
New to me, they also rattled through their songs, their debut album came out in 2017, and they seem to have a more gaelic/celtic tinge than some.

Carole King & Friends at Christmas
This 2011 effort, held at glamorous, er, Stoke Newington Town Hall, saw Carole rotating with guests The Puppini Sisters, Richard Hawley, The Mummers and  - surprise - Gregory Porter. Again, some familiar standards and some welcome-for-being-less-familiar efforts. Greg did Up On The Roof.

Dreaming Of A Jewish Christmas
The story of how and why some Christmas classics (The Christmas Song, White Christmas, Silver Bells etc) were the work of a group who don't celebrate Christmas in the same way as others. Rudolf the Red Nosed Reindeer was invented to boost sales of a colouring book, whilst Do You Hear What I Hear? was about the Cuban Missile Crisis. So, informative amidst the schmaltz.
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Post  misery guts Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:28 am

Top of the Pops New Year
Like the Christmas edition (although screened on the 29th for no good reason - other than maybe Dr Who taking its slot), this was another collection of which acts had bothered to come in to the studio (both shows likely being shot at the same time). Notably, the awful These Days turned up on both shows, which is a bit careless. There were features on the number of film musicals, and looking ahead to 2019, but not for long. They tacked on Ava Max's video which was a convenient #1 ending.

Manran @ Barrowland
Backed by Trail West, the Manran mob had the Glasgow crowd happy.

Pendevig o'r 'Steddfod
More celtic antics, a longer concert here from a lively and tuneful lot.
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Post  misery guts Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:28 am

New Year's Day Concert from Vienna 2019
2 and a half fun-packed (!) hours with works by multiple members of the Strauss family, and one or two from others. Entertaining background music, though.

J Cole Live @ Wireless Festival 2018
Boring, but could have been worse. I muddle him up with MJ Cole, who was around in the 90s, and about the same interest value.
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Post  misery guts Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:15 am

Ken Dodd - How Tickled We Were
Tribute to the late legend, with some focus on his small sideline as balladeer. Tears was the 3rd biggest selling single in the UK in the 1960s.

Belladrum 2018 - Nerina Pallot
The quirky singer-songwriter managed to do the awful (but popular) Everybody's Gone To War, and neither of her songs I really liked.

Top of the Pops - The Story of 1987
Pete Waterman was in his element, and Kim Appleby and Rick Astley were both present to help tell their own stories. The former Terence Trent D'Arby was at least coherent. Two members of M/A/R/R/S and two folk from Curiosity Killed The Cat had their own tales, and Martyn Ware was a successful producer this year. Carol Decker was obligatorily catty.

Top of the Pops - 1987 Big Hits
An hour backing up the above, and also including Wet Wet Wet, New Order and the Pet Shop Boys (I suspect Neil either isn't willing to talk, or they're not willing to interview him).


Last edited by misery guts on Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post  misery guts Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:40 am

After The Screaming Stops
Much-hyped doc about Bros' recent reformation, much taken up by their recounting their formative experiences, the painful way the band split, and then finally tensions about working together again. There's some aggro, but mercifully they find a path through on the day before the first gig, which then goes well. Good luck to them, I suppose.

MTV World Stage 2018: Dimitri Vegas & Like Mike
They're brothers as well as DJs. This headline show from Malta in June zipped along merrily enough.

Take That - We've Come A Long Way
More boyband antics, this time rather less tense. Their recent greatest hits collection had tracks reworked, and they do some reminiscence here with Robbie (Jason, having left in 2014, did not show his face). Barry Gibb turned up to contribute to their new version of How Deep Is Your Love? and revealed they'd been singing one line wrongly ever since 1996.
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